Episode 116 | Feb 6, 2025

Rethinking Fitness After 50, With Debra Atkinson

What if everything you thought you knew about exercise after 50 was wrong? For decades, women were told that endless cardio was the key to staying fit, but new research shows that strength training is the real game-changer for longevity, energy, and metabolism. This week on Health Coach Talk, Dr. Sandi welcomes fitness expert and Flipping 50 founder Debra Atkinson to explore how midlife women can train smarter—not harder—to build strength, prevent injury, and feel their best at any age.

“The likelihood of getting hurt is far greater if you don’t lift weights than if you do… You’re not going to bulk up in a week or in two weeks but I promise you will already start to feel stronger.”

Debra Atkinson, MS, CSCS

When Debra started working with midlife women, no one was talking about menopause and fitness. She saw an underserved community struggling with stubborn weight gain, changing energy levels, and advice that didn’t work anymore. Instead of accepting decline as inevitable, she focused on the power of muscle and movement, building programs that balance hormones and help women feel strong at every stage of life. Through her TEDx talk, best-selling books, and Flipping 50 programs, she has empowered hundreds of thousands of women to shift their approach to fitness and embrace strength training as a tool for vitality.

In this episode, Debra breaks down the most common mistakes women make when it comes to exercise—like fearing heavy weights, relying too much on cardio, or missing out on explosive movements that support bone health. She shares the science behind muscle preservation, the importance of power exercises, and how to structure workouts for real results. Whether lifting at home with minimal equipment or navigating the weight room for the first time, she offers practical tips to help women build strength safely and effectively.

For health coaches, this episode underscores the importance of mindset, relationship-building, and career capital. Leslie emphasizes that competency and experience often outweigh credentials alone. She encourages coaches to seek opportunities to hone their skills, even if it means starting with volunteer roles or creative community outreach. Dr. Sandi echoes this advice, reminding coaches that the ability to market themselves and build meaningful connections is a key driver of career success. Coaches can use these insights to grow their confidence, expand their networks, and advocate for their value in a competitive job market.

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Transcript

Dr. Sandi: Welcome to another episode of “Health Coach Talk.” Today we’re talking all about fitness, particularly for women. And it turns out we got so much wrong. I was the generation that thought you had to do cardio, often obsessive amounts of cardio, long times on the treadmill. And it turns out that what we needed to be doing was more strength training. And yes, there is a place for cardio, but we need to be getting strong and staying strong, and particularly after 50.

So, I am so excited about the conversation that I had on this episode with my good friend, Debra Atkinson. Let me tell you a little bit about Debra. She is the hormone balancing fitness expert. She has helped more than 275,000 women flip. That’s why it’s called Flipping 50, flip their second half with energy and vitality. She’s the bestselling author of “You Still Got It, Girl! The After 50 Fitness Formula for Women” and “Hot, Not Bothered.”

Debra hosts Flipping50TV, that’s an internet broadcast, and “Flipping 50” podcast, that’s an AARP top broadcast for adults 50 plus with over 3.5 million downloads. And she means fitness business that’s specifically for health and fitness coaches. Her TEDx talk is Everything Women in Menopause Learned About Exercise May Be A Lie. She’s the creator of the first and only hormone balancing fitness membership exclusively for women in menopause, and the Flipping 50 Menopause Fitness Specialist Training for trainers and health coaches.

So, without further ado, here is my conversation with Debra Atkinson. Well, I have a really special guest today on “Health Coach Talk.” She has been my friend for a long time. She’s my inspiration, and I know she will inspire you as well. So, welcome to Debra Atkinson of Flipping 50.

Debra: So, thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Sandi: You started Flipping 50 back in 2013. And I think I met you, it was around 2016. And so you’ve been in this field for such a long time. Things have really, really changed. So, can you share how that conversation has changed? Share what you do with Flipping 50 and how that’s changed over the years. It’s now 11 years, almost 12.

Debra: Absolutely. It’s changed dramatically. So, Flipping 50, first, to let everybody in on the secret, is really about the entire second half. It’s not just your 50th birthday or your 50 to 60 decade. And that really addresses women in menopause. And nobody was talking about that when I started. In fact, that was the conversation as I went around talking to people about this niche is really underserved. I kept hearing this during the past 30 years of working with mostly women, also men in different ages. But midlife women ask questions because they hit that point where it’s not working anymore. And I kept hearing from baby boomers, “My doctor just says, well, welcome to menopause. That’s what happens when you get to be this age.” And they weren’t accepting that.

And so I was like, “I think I’m going to niche here.” And everybody kind of said, “That’s a great idea. Nobody’s doing that.” And then when you’re in business or you know enough about this, you know that’s not necessarily good, you want some demand. You want to know there’s proof that people are looking for help. So, I really went out and did it based on my own anecdotal knowledge that, yes, women were wanting it. There still needed to be a little education that you don’t have to settle for this, and what you can do and the benefit of muscle for your longevity, not only your menopause journey.

So, now here today, we’re all talking about it. You know, and I think we’ve almost flipped to the other side. There’s a little confusion about, you know, there are doctors who are acting as influencers. I just read a meme today about this, you know, expression, and then there are influences pretending or giving doctors advice. And, you know, on both sides, that becomes a little confusing and conflicting for someone who doesn’t know who’s talking right now and what’s my filter for who I listen to.

So, I’d like to think that at Flipping 50, what we’re doing is helping to vet out what is content and how do you know what to listen to. What’s the criteria of something that you might want to consider as an idea, as a knowledge or learning that may or may not apply to you, but we probably need to be much more open-minded? So, first of all, nobody was talking about it. Now everybody’s talking about it and we need to just simply sort and vet our sources really well.

Dr. Sandi: That’s true. There is so much noise out there. And what I’ve always loved about your work and what you advocate for, you’re just some real good old-fashioned basics regarding, for example, how to strength train, that you don’t need fancy equipment. And I love your social media posts and you’re showing things that you could do just with dumbbells, bells with bands that you don’t need to even be going to a gym. So, can you talk about what are some of the most common mistakes that you see in this age group? What are women doing wrong?

Debra: Well, I think, number one, they’re still leaning into fears. Fears that are legit fears, I might get hurt. And to that, if I can answer that right away, I would say the likelihood of getting hurt is far greater if you don’t lift weights than if you do lift weights. There is certainly a how. There’s a technique. There’s a knowing that a certain exercise is right for your body or right for your body in the moment you’re in right now, that you want to be sure you’re covering that base. Then there’s the fear, I think, of bulking up still. You know, Sandi, you don’t look bulky to me, but I know you’re lifting and I know you’re lifting heavy. So, I love that. And women who are in figure or competition for bodybuilding, they’re working really, really hard and they’re eating thousands and thousands of calories in order to put on just the tiniest bit of muscle and lose fat. It’s very difficult. And that fear, the only way to get over that, honestly, is go through it to start and prove to yourself, you know, you’re not going to bulk up in a week or in two weeks, but I promise you, you will already start to feel stronger. And if you take that first step and realize, “Okay, I’m okay this week, I’m okay next week,” you can always stop if it doesn’t work. And I say that because I’m so confident that won’t happen to you.

I will remind everybody that when maybe in your life you started lifting weights, think of the age and think of what was going on. Many of us were eating very low fat, not high protein at all, and high carbohydrates because that was low fat. And carbohydrates may actually in fact help bulk you up, right? So, if you’re eating in the wrong way, then potentially many of us will bulk, but it wasn’t the weights potentially. It was how are we fueling. And now we’ve learned so much about how to do that correctly.

Dr. Sandi: Have your thoughts on protein changed over the years?

Debra: My awareness that even I was not having enough, but I would say at 30, I think I was training for my very first marathon. That was a year I’d had my son, and pregnancy has training effects on a woman. And I felt stronger than I’d ever felt in my entire life the year after I had him. And I thought if I’m going to do it, I’m going to do it now. So, I was training for a marathon. Now that comes us back to another mistake, right? We do a little too much cardio, and today this is not advice I would give to anybody. But I realized the importance of recovering after those runs because there were more of them, and they were longer in duration. And I knew that I was going to be at risk for loss of muscle if I didn’t replenish. So, I was very aware that runners also need an increase of protein. So, that’s when I first became aware of it. And getting in those 30 grams, I was religious about it. My husband would joke about it at that point, you know, how immediately, “I can’t talk to you. I have to go get a smoothie.” When I finished, “Talk to you in a minute, but right now I got to go do this.”

And, you know, other things, it didn’t spill over into maybe my total intake over the day until probably about 10, 15 years later. And now certainly more so, it’s highest priority of my day. You know, it’s how I start my day. If I’m low on energy, if I’m not functioning properly, mentally, you know, I’m looking at what did I have for my last meal? When was the last time I ate? And of course, hydration. But it’s definitely changed. And I am probably leaning toward the animal side of things for women who are trying to lose weight, simply because they can take in fewer calories and get higher quality protein in doing that. And that’s not to say that there’s not a place for many parts of your diet to be also plant-based, whether they are protein or otherwise. But I think it can be difficult. And I’ve had many vegans and vegetarians work with me, and it just didn’t work for them at midlife the way it had earlier. And they needed to incorporate more animal protein in order to not have the weight loss resistance that they were experiencing.

Dr. Sandi: I think back when I was addicted to cardio, I never did marathons but treadmill every day. And also at the time, I was a vegan. And thinking back, I thought, wow, I was not getting my protein needs met and I was also not doing strength training. And now I’ve reversed that and did a 360, really, degree change. So, now it’s protein first and it is strength training first and cardio not so much.

Debra: I think you bring up a good point that maybe we should just stir up for everybody to answer this rhetorical question. I think we are, some of us, addicted to the cardio. We believe that it makes us feel good, that it’s the way we deal with stress. And yet if you haven’t found your way into the weight room and begun that and tried really consistently, you won’t know if you’re brand new to it, because I think you can experience that same kind of, “I’m hooked,” until it becomes a little familiar to you. You don’t feel like a fish out of water doing it, because none of us are good at things we’ve never done before, unless that’s luck. But most of us need a little time. And women tend to feel more powerful internally as well as externally. And I think when you have that, you lose that need to get the cardio fix. You’re just like, “Huh, I can feel like this, lifting weights? And look like this, lifting weights? And going for walks and I don’t actually have to beat myself up?” I think we’re all okay with that.

Dr. Sandi: Oh, I love it. Yes. And when I do go into the weight room, which was so new, I really didn’t start a serious training until I was around 70. Before that, I dabbled in it, but I was doing lighter weights and I always thought that I get enough strength from yoga and Pilates. And those are great. I still do those. But I see in the weight room that women are often not there at all or definitely in the minority. And I think we grew up in my generation thinking those are no-go zones. What are these hammer strengths, these big machines? And the bodybuilders are in there doing their squats with the big bars over their back. That’s not for women, especially older women. And I see women go in there now and they’ll just pick up very light weights or they will do a circuit where they’re doing the machines, but they’re not doing anywhere near the heavy weight to really do anything. So, as a coach, how do you inspire people to lift heavy, to even have the courage to go into the weight room?

Debra: Great point. First of all, we’re still underrepresented in the weight room and I think maybe we should unpack that it’s intimidating and what about it is intimidating. So, if you’re thinking, I don’t like going in there. If I could grab every gym owner, anybody who is doing a remodel or building a new gym, none of those weight rooms were built with women in mind, not one. I mean, the color scheme is harsh. And for men, it’s like hard rock and roll. We want high ceilings. Many of these are recovered racquetball rooms that have been converted and they’re lower ceilings. An extra floor was put in so that more rooms could be in it. And it’s dark, it’s like a cave and it’s generally smelly. It’s not well ventilated. And then you put the big guys in there too. So, it is both the environment and it is the men. We’re not painting a great picture, I realize.

But if we could break it down, there are some gyms, some of the newer gyms, some of the larger gyms ceilings are higher. The weight room is much more open. It feels like it’s right next to where the cardio is. The machines are right next to an open area where the dumbbells are less intimidating because you’re like, “I’m drifting over and now I’m in this space,” right? It’s not as big a deal. And I do like machines as a place to get started because you can say, “Okay, the picture and the instruction is right there.” I love a trainer to get you started. I would also hesitate to have everybody just default to the trainer. Make sure you ask them really good questions about, you know, “Tell me not just about the exercise and the kinesthetics, the bone and the muscle benefit of this exercise, but tell me how is the exercise design that you’ll create for me different than you might for a woman who’s 30 or a woman who’s 75? How is that different if you are 52 or if you are 47?” You know, I would ask these questions. If you’ve told them you’re in perimenopause, be very diligent about questioning, “Did they ask me what phase of menopause I’m in? Did they even ask?” Because if they didn’t, they wouldn’t know what to do with it if you told them you were, right? So, these are really important questions to ask.

But I think lean on someone. It could be a friend you go in with, but your friend’s exercise is not yours and your friend’s weight is not yours. When I’m doing an exercise demo, sometimes on a YouTube video or in a quick Instagram, it’s not meant to be, “Here, you should do this too.” It’s just meant to be a, “Were you aware of this nuance that could improve your workout?” and an awareness that there’s questions you should be asking about your own workout.

I will often get, “What weight are you using?” if I’m demonstrating an arm exercise. And my answer is not snarky, but it’s none of your business. You should not compare yourself to me. Heavy for me is light for you or vice versa. And you do have to trial and error. No trainer can tell you. When we suggest the number of repetitions to fatigue, we’re doing that based on, “Are you beginning or returning restarting? Are you, okay, I’ve got a little experience now under my belt or are you more advanced and you’re ready to go for true strength and some power in that workout?” When we give you the repetition ranges, we’re indirectly telling you the weight. So, we’re suggesting to you, you will have your own ranges of what feels light, what’s kind of moderate and what’s heavy, but everything changes based on the order you do an exercise in. If it’s last in your workout versus first in your workout, you will probably need different weights on those days. If you are working out on a Thursday or a Friday, many people will find they have a little more built up fatigue just from the collective work week, not just their physical exercise but the work week and they feel fresher on Monday.

Part of that is more rest, maybe a little bit more calories. So, that’s a clue too for women. If you eat just a little bit more on the weekends, often we’re punishing ourselves, but you might pay attention to the fact that if you feel fresher working out, you might have needed those.

Dr. Sandi: Wow. That is so interesting that there are so much to unpack there. I love that. And the idea is that this is personalized, it’s not one size fits all. And you work with a coach, with a trainer to design a program that is right for you. I know you have some great videos where you show the importance of things like jumping, like power move, bursts of activity. So, it isn’t all just going into the gym and lifting weights. What are some great things you can do at home that don’t involve investing in a gym membership or getting lots of fancy equipment?

Debra: Absolutely. And we got really creative during the pandemic, didn’t we all? Had you told me we were going to have a global dumbbell shortage in January of 2020, I just said, “Yeah, right.” And then we did, right, because all the gym goers who were in the weight room went home and ordered theirs online so they could get them. But water bottles, you know, are great filled first with rocks, then with sand, then with water. They’re going to be much heavier than just water only, by the way. So, we’ve all got those. They’ve been gifted to you at conferences, go dig them out.

And then really just getting up, you mentioned, in addition to weight training, because we can’t do that every day. Remember, the work is so important but so is the recovery period between because that is actually when the fitness occurs during rest, during refueling that happens during the rest. So, things like going for walks but power in the jumps helps with impact for bone, helps with power for what we call Type II, fast-twitch muscle fiber. And most of us move slowly throughout the rest of our day. Many of us go for walks at a slow leisure pace as we should. And we lift weights under control. I’ll bite some of us are adding a little power to that movement, a little bit of speed, and that’s okay. We’re not talking momentum, but power can also come from movements like jumping, hopping. It can come from holding a medicine ball, slamming it down if you’re worried about your joints or your surgeon who replaced your knee or hip said, “Don’t jump. Don’t mess up that pretty work.” You can still slam a medicine ball. It’s not going to touch those hips at all. You’re all good to go. So, power can be many ways.

But also we need dynamic balance. You know, one thing that bothers me is we all talk about strength training so that we can improve bone density, not just our lean muscle mass. But we need to talk about we’re doing that so that if we fall, we don’t fracture. But wouldn’t it be great if we don’t fall at all and still just have that insurance in the bank? By doing that, it’s more than standing in tree pose in a cool, calm, quiet, serene room, because that is never when we fall. How many times have you heard of anyone falling in a yoga class? What we need to do is center of gravity for most of us is somewhere close to our belly button. It’s not exact. If you’re taller or shorter, it’s changing a little bit. But when that center of gravity is not over your base of support, like your feet hip width apart, that’s when we fall, you’re leaning over to pick something. And so we need to really practice that. On one leg, you could take off your shoes and socks. And on one leg, put back on not in that order sock and shoe. Even that is a fun little test. If that’s too much for where you are now, stand close to a wall, give yourself some support. We want you to be safe within testing and do it in an environment where you’re not distracted but then turn on the music or the television or ask your family and pets to walk around because you should get distracted. We fall when the wind is blowing, we have an arm around a bag of groceries, we’re pulling a door open, somebody’s calling your name. So, we have to practice for chaos.

Dr. Sandi: I love that suggestion. And you’re talking about really functional fitness, and focusing on the importance of balance. I take a belly class, and we do a lot of balancing. And one of the things we do is do some of the things with our eyes closed. And it’s very important, as well as the importance of jumping. And I know a lot of women, certainly women my age, are really afraid to jump. But that is so valuable for bone density to have that jumping. So, I try to jumprope and mix it up to not get stuck in the same routine. But we are often so focused on if we’re doing resistance training, I think that lifting weights is enough, but we do need balance, we do need jumping, those types of trainings, and looking at power and grip strength. So, I recently started doing Farmer’s carry.

Debra: Yes!

Dr. Sandi: And taking on heavy kettlebells and just seeing timing. Can I do it for a minute? Okay, can I do it for a minute and five seconds and adding more time or more weight? And I never did those kinds of things years ago.

Debra: To anybody listening who’s like, “A farmer’s carry?” So, think about picking up your suitcase, right, your carry on when those moments you have to pick it up to take it over the threshold to get on the plane, or you’re picking it up to put overhead, that could be your farmer carry, by the way. You don’t have to have a dumbbell or a kettlebell. I like to do it with one arm, Sandi, because then it also makes you asymmetrical and it causes you to get more core going on. So, you can hold weights in both arms. But if you do it unilaterally, it’s a whole different story. And then you get to compare your right side to your left side and realize, “Okay, I have a little catching up to do maybe on one side.”

Dr. Sandi: Oh, that’s a great idea. I’m gonna try that. So, it’s like a suitcase carry.

Debra: Yes.

Dr. Sandi: Yeah, that is wonderful. I think we don’t do enough unilaterally. And I think this shows that I could be doing this on my own. But if I had you as a coach, I’m going to get different ideas, or you may look at what I’m doing and say, “Okay, move a little bit this way or pull up in your core more.” So, the value of coaching and having somebody who is supporting you and you’ve spent many years coaching people.

Debra: And I think back to your first question or so when you ask, you know, someone who’s getting started, what could make it easier for someone to get started? And I do think that we hear a lot from women in our community. We’re looking at some different programs we have available to them. And some are, you know, a clip in a demo video where they could go through it themselves so that they could be at a gym, because following a video from start to end at the gym doesn’t work because the people at the gym are not necessarily caring what your agenda is, right? But a lot of the women find this keeps me accountable. If I can just push play and I know you’re talking me through every repetition, I will do it. And if I don’t have that, I kind of do an exercise and then I see my laundry or I see something else in my house I can do. So, sometimes you need to think about, “What do I need?” And is it literally a person with you right there or is it someone leading you and teaching you through even if it is virtual?

Dr. Sandi: Yeah. Can you comment about the power of virtual? Because you have training programs that are virtual. So, how can this help? Because we have a situation where still we have so much information out there on the importance of physical activity and yet so many people are sedentary and don’t move throughout the day or move in the wrong ways. So, how can virtual training help us?

Debra: I think it’s accountability and yet it’s accountability with convenience. So, here you are, number one, in the comfort of your own home. At a time, ideally, you’re choosing. It’s not dictated to you. There is the advantage of that. But I think for a lot of women, I hear we’re valuing the freedom of time. And so being able to pick and choose, “When do I want to do it? Am I a morning person or am I a little bit better by midday and not quite that morning person?” Being able to choose really matters. And I think often a virtual program that gives you that flexibility may be more important to someone listening than someone else.

But it’s also the quality of cues and the ability to listen to a voice without it feeling like fingernails on a chalkboard. So, test run whatever you might be listening to, because I find that to be really important. You know, your voice, do you want me whispering in your ear? And if you could say heck no to that right now, then I’m probably not your girl, but somebody is. Somebody is. So, find them, find the pace. You know, pace of speech is really important. Here’s what I think is my special sauce and, Sandi, by all means, this is me patting myself on the back. But I would like to think that I’m going to give a cue that answers a question that someone watching or listening doesn’t know to ask yet, that I am suggesting they pull their shoulders down and pull them back before they realize that they’ve even done it. And they’re like, “How do you know?” That’s who I want to be for them.

Dr. Sandi: I love that. And you have such a great voice.

Debra: Thank you.

Dr. Sandi: So, tell us about your programs. What do you have available?

Debra: Primarily we start with and we’re anchored all in strength training. So, we want to get people into strength training as quickly as possible. That said, right now, this is part of what I would call the menopause gold rush right now is everybody wants to get you muscle right away. We want to get you bone density right away. And, Sandi, we see you lifting heavy right away, but you didn’t lift heavy right away. You didn’t. And a lot of people will see me and again, ask weights, but I’ve been doing this for 42 years. So, you shouldn’t be lifting the same weight as me. And I’m at more maintenance. I still have to overload myself and get more creative.

But we want to start you slowly, build a foundation. And we know that midlife women 40 and over do tend because of the decline in estrogen to get hurt more frequently than when they were younger. Just if they were exercising in the same capacity, this would be true. So, we want a little bit longer warm up. We want to go slower, build a foundation. We used to say the first 8 to 10 weeks, or 6 to 8, if we got quick and fast, we’re about building the neural connection from your brain to the muscle. And we can’t rush that. So, going heavy doesn’t help you. You may rush yourself to an injury if we overload your connective tissue, the joints, the ligaments, the tendons too quickly. So, let’s not do it. And it’s like building a house. We have to have a solid foundation before we get to the penthouse.

So, we do that and we do it slowly. Those of you who are worried about injury, we’re probably more appealing to you. Those of you who want to rush ahead and find you’re injured recurrently, you know, it happens over and over, this is hard for you to stay back and I get it because I’m you too. I want to jump in, I want to do the harder thing right away. But those of us who need it, we’re there to hold you back and to remind you. You know, you can still reach muscle fatigue. We’re still going to help you do so but laying a foundation.

So, we start slowly, we progress and we like to do at least a three-month session for almost everybody that is a higher rep of slightly lower repetition range. So, we’re not necessarily getting you 25 repetitions. We don’t go that high to wear and tear on the joint, but we go high enough where it’s not heavy on ligaments and joints. So, we start there and then progressively over time we ask a series of questions about your readiness. You know, is time an obstacle? Is your energy right now an obstacle? Are you in a moment where you’re caregiving and you’re working and you’re moving? And so maybe we need to look at let’s not overload you with a really hard program right now. Let’s juggle this so that the stress of life and the stress of the exercise makes sense together because they’re married, they’re in a relationship and you can’t isolate one. So, there are times when we can push and times when we need to come back and say, “Doing it this way will actually give you the optimal fitness. We’re not asking you to settle for fitness just to complement the rest of your life in order to get what you want.” So, we really guide you through not only with the exercise but the biomechanics and the kinesiology but with what program right now for where I’m at.

Dr. Sandi: That’s beautiful. I love that. And if there are health coaches who are listening, you can refer to Debra. It’s a great way for your clients who are in midlife to start or to continue if they’re not sure. This is great guidance. I refer to you all the time, and I think that you have a great program. You’ve been an inspiration. Debra, where can people find you?

Debra: They can find me at flippingfifty.com, all words spelled out, no spaces. On social we’re at Flipping50TV as in television, Flipping50TV on Instagram, Facebook and YouTube. And for health coaches or trainers who are watching and would like to work more effectively, have a method with working with women in menopause or beyond who are dealing with what happened to me during menopause, you can go to Fitness Marketing Academy and learn more about the Flipping 50 Menopause Fitness Specialist to do what we do. We hand it to you.

Dr. Sandi: I love that. Well, this is good timing because right after our session today recording, I am going with my trainer and we just do three things. It’s a very short session. He just helps me with deadlifts, and leg press, and chest press where I’ve got a spotter because that fear is such a big factor. I’m afraid to get that big bar all the way to my chest by myself like, “Oh, I’m going to drop it. It’s gonna crush me,” but he’s, “No, I’ve got you. You’re safe.” And I think that is having that courage to go to the gym to start one of your programs to say, “Yes, I can do this,” and it is possible at any age even 70 and beyond like I am. Well, Debra, it has been a pleasure. We have been friends for a long time and she also has a wonderful podcast that you can check out. You are the expert in this space, and it is wonderful to see it catching on and women recognizing the importance of physical strength and agility and power.

Debra: Amen. And those midlife women like you, like me, we’re influencing three generations. There’s no more powerful health influencer in the world. So, helping them helps everybody.

Dr. Sandi: Well, that’s absolutely true.