Episode 174 | Apr 2, 2026

A Holistic Approach to Heart Health, With Dr. Jack Wolfson

What if the most important conversations about heart health are the ones happening outside the cardiologist’s office? This week on Health Coach Talk, Dr. Sandi welcomes Dr. Jack Wolfson, a cardiologist known for his root-cause, holistic approach to cardiovascular wellness, for a conversation about what it really means to support heart health. Together, they explore why so much conventional care still overlooks foundational lifestyle factors like nutrition, movement, stress, and connection, even though these are often the very areas that shape long-term outcomes.

“Childhood trauma, PTSD, anger, anxiety, fear, worry, social isolation – all markedly accelerate cardiovascular disease… Our 100-year heart method is eat well, live well, think well.”

Dr. Jack Wolfson, Natural Heart Doctor

Dr. Jack brings a unique perspective to this discussion because he once practiced inside the conventional model he now questions. After years in a large cardiology group, his thinking began to shift as he looked more closely at the deeper drivers of disease and the limitations of a pharmaceutical-first approach. In this episode, he shares how that transformation led him to build a different kind of practice; one centered on natural and functional approaches to heart health, supported by a collaborative team that includes health coaches. Dr. Sandi and Dr. Jack also explore the often-overlooked role of chronic stress, emotional health, and social isolation in cardiovascular disease, along with the importance of community, purpose, and daily habits that help people stay active and engaged throughout life.

For health coaches, this conversation speaks directly to the work of helping clients turn broad health advice into meaningful, sustainable change. Dr. Jack highlights the value of accountability, support, and meeting people where they are, whether they are working on nutrition, stress, sleep, movement, or priorities that better reflect the life they want to live. He also shares thoughts on food-first strategies, targeted supplementation, and the need to model healthy behaviors in a way that inspires others. This episode offers a powerful reminder that coaches are essential in helping clients connect heart health not just to lab values or diagnoses, but to energy, purpose, resilience, and the ability to fully participate in life.

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Transcript

Dr. Sandi: Welcome to “Health Coach Talk.” Today, the topic is heart health, and my guest is truly a leader in this field. Let me tell you about Dr. Jack Wolfson, who I first met about 11 years ago, and he was one of the early people who I met who encouraged me to go big with FMCA. And he was a big believer in the power of health coaches. In fact, he employs quite a number of them in his practice. So, let me tell you about him. Few have influenced the world of cardiology quite like Dr. Jack Wolfson. He was a traditionally-trained cardiologist, with a decade of experience in Arizona’s largest heart group. He had every accolade the medical system could offer. He performed procedures. He prescribed medications. He followed the rules. But real leadership requires the courage to ask better questions. And when Dr. Jack met Dr. Heather, his future wife, she was a visionary chiropractic physician, his world changed. She challenged him to look beyond symptoms, beyond surface-level solutions, and into the root causes of disease. So, in 2012, he stepped out of his practice, and founded the Natural Heart Doctor. This is a bold, pioneering practice committed to uncovering the truth behind heart disease, and offering natural, holistic solutions. He is a bestselling author, an international speaker, and a respected voice, featured by CNN, NBC, Fox News, “The New York Times,” “USA Today,” and more. I know you are going to enjoy my conversation with Dr. Jack as much as I enjoyed the interview. Welcome to the podcast, Jack.

Dr. Jack: Thank you so much, Sandi. It’s a pleasure to be on. I’m honored to speak to the audience here. And again, for our friendship, I’m very grateful that you and I got to be in this small group together, back in 2015. So, here we are, over 10 years later. So, again, thank you.

Dr. Sandi: Absolutely. And you are the Natural Heart Doctor. And a lot of people may not know what that means. Like, what does that mean to be a natural heart doctor?

Dr. Jack: Right? Does that mean that someone else’s doctor is not natural? And that’s exactly what it means. So, I am a cardiologist. I’ve been a cardiologist since 2002. In 2012, I would leave the biggest group in the state of Arizona, where I was a hospital-based cardiologist, and chairman of medicine and cardiology, and director of cardiac rehab, and then start my own company, which is now Natural Heart Doctor, what I would say, Sandi, is the worldwide leader in cardiovascular health. Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic, they’re the worldwide leaders in cardiovascular disease, and we’re over on the health side. And we’ve got doctors, including cardiologists, we’ve got naturopathic medical doctors, nurse practitioners. We’ve got a big team of health coaches, and each one of us, of course, is trying to give people the best natural heart health solutions to the number-one killer in the world. And clearly, pharmaceuticals, the approach is not working. It’s still the number-one killer. Life expectancy of the American male, 76. Female, 79. That’s not good enough. We’re the home of the 100-year heart, and we help people achieve that.

Dr. Sandi: Well, I applaud your work. And heart disease has been something I’ve been concerned about for a long time. And at FMCA, we teach coaches how to support people who are wanting to prevent or potentially reverse cardiovascular disease with lifestyle factors, which is possible. What really struck me about your approach is that it really is starting with those real basic lifestyle factors, starting with nutrition. Now it’s talking about what you eat, this, “Gee, who knew that could play a big role in your disease risk?”

Dr. Jack: The medical doctors get zero training, as everybody knows, in nutrition, and zero training in lifestyle, and that’s where I say, I would sooner send anyone to Sandi Scheinbaum for health advice than I would to any cardiologist I’ve ever worked with. And yes, it is props to you and all the coaches who you train, but it’s also a really denigration of and condemnation of mainstream medicine, where things are at. Now, in the midst of a heart attack, I don’t tell people to call up Sandi or one of your graduates. And plus, the men and women who work in emergency rooms and trauma centers, but for chronic disease, they really have nothing. They really have nothing, and everybody knows it, so… And that’s really, again, where this expert health coaching comes in, to be able to meet people where they’re at. It’s one thing, also, as you know, to be able to just use these talking points right? You know, eat better food, eat all organic, have lots of free range grass-fed meats, wild seafood, eat the organs, and eggs and avocados and coconuts and raw dairy, and nuts and seeds and fruits and vegetables, and add in some raw cacao and fermented foods. We can tell people that. But how do we also coach people through that? Because it’s very easy to give them a laundry list, but the accountability factor is really where coaching excels. So, that’s why it’s the team approach, because I’m not gonna sit and coach every person. I don’t have time for that. But hopefully I can hire coaches who do, and that is also their passion. After being at this for so many years, and saying the same kind of mantras, it’s a little bit exhausting for me. Hopefully, we can get some fresh blood in, some newer coaches, who are just, like, “Give me more people. Let me help guide them,” you know, “through this path.” And really, ultimately, it’s about giving people their best life. How do people do the things they wanna do? Essentially die young at an old age. And I know, again, you’re into muscle building, and you’re into hiking, you’re into fitness. And you and I, before we got on, you were talking about the grandbabies and stuff like that. We wanna be the active grandmother and grandfather.

Dr. Sandi: Yes.

Dr. Jack: We don’t want to be the person who comes in at the wedding or at the bar mitzvah, so-and-so, and here she is in a wheelchair, and… We wanna be like, “Look at grandma Sandi. She’s dancing. She’s doing… She’s doing the whole thing.” So, yeah. All good.

Dr. Sandi: Absolutely. It is critical. And the contrast was so apparent about a year ago. My husband, he had an artery, 99% blockage. And so he’s in this intake, with the surgeon and the nurse for, they’re preparing, you know, for the procedure the following week. And so they have this whole checklist of questions. And I said, “Don’t you wanna hear about his diet?” Like, what…? Like, They didn’t even ask. What about, you know, the fact that he doesn’t exercise? And they, you know, they always, they wanted to know were his medications, and the, after the procedure as well. Like, here’s your, you know, here’s the meds, here’s the plan. Well, what about supplements? No, we don’t have, you know, “There’s no room for that on our form,” basically. It was completely night and day, you know, in terms of the approach that you advocate. And the, also the fact that we don’t have enough doctors. And I have friends who, one friend in particular, she said, yeah, I need to see a cardiologist for prevention. When was the appointment you can get? Well, “Two years from now,” just, as a new patient, which is crazy. And meanwhile, you know, she’s metabolically unhealthy, and not doing anything to address those factors.

Dr. Jack: But that’s a blessing in disguise, the fact…

Dr. Sandi: Yeah. But that’s…

Dr. Jack: …that you can’t see the cardiologist for two years, because you’re gonna be very disappointed.

Dr. Sandi: That’s right.

Dr. Jack: You’re gonna wait two years for disappointment, because their idea of prevention is only pharmaceuticals. If they can do additional testing on you, if they can do a treadmill stress test, if they can do a nuclear stress test, if they can recommend a CT scan, which insurance won’t cover, but then invariably you’ve got a little coronary calcification, and now they can use a billable diagnosis, coronary artery disease. So, whenever people say, “I need a cardiologist,” I always start off with “Why?” Like, why do you feel you need a…? “Well, I wanna prevent a heart attack.” Well, then, I wouldn’t recommend you go see a cardiologist if…unless you want pharmaceuticals, because their idea of prevention will be, “Yes, you are a living and breathing person. Therefore you’re suffering from a statin drug deficiency. And here’s your pharmaceuticals.” And I hate to sound so cynical, but I was born into that, right, Sandi? My father was a cardiologist. I practiced that way, where I was told, for years, “You will order nuclear stress tests on everyone, because that’s how we pay our bills.” And I did it because I didn’t think I was hurting anybody. But now I recognize, of course, that injecting nuclear, radioactive material into living people was not good. And it was actually not beneficial at all. And the only people who do well from that are the people who make money from it, of course, which are the doctors and the hospitals and the technicians, and the companies who produce the nuclear tracers and the equipment that reads that. So, it is, again, we sound, you know, cynical, maybe sometimes conspiratorial. But I think if we say, “Let’s view everything through a financial lens,” as far as why things happen, things start to make a lot of sense.

Dr. Sandi: I could not agree more, which is why, personally, I focus on everything that I can do to prevent a heart disease. But know that if I were going to get some of these tests, I would be so concerned, I would basically talk myself into having chest pains, and monitoring every little pain inside. What could this be? And I, as a health psychologist for many, many years, I saw so many people who were told, “Oh, you have this irregular… We’re gonna have to monitor you.” And that set off an explosion of panic attacks, where, you know, every time they took a few steps, they would go, “Oh, I think I’m having a heart attack.” But it would be a panic attack. And so, really focusing on the power of these lifestyle factors. So, we talked about nutrition, we talked about exercise. I wonder if you could comment on the role of stress. So, many years ago, I studied with Ray Rosenman, the type A behavior and your heart, and analysis showed that it was the anger. And people who, you know, every little thing is going to upset them. They’re irritable. They are quick to get angry, and are experiencing this parasympathetic state so much of the time. I wonder if you can comment. How does that contribute to cardiovascular disease?

Dr. Jack: Yeah, it contributes tremendously, as you know. But unfortunately, mainstream medicine does not address it. It’s not something we ever talk about. And our 100-year heart method is eat well, live well, think well, and then test, don’t guess, evidence-based supplements, biohacking strategies. It’s a pharma-last model, as opposed to pharma-first. But we all debate the food story, and we talk about the lifestyle: sleep, sunshine, physical activity, all the environmental toxins. All incredibly important. But the think well stuff, we don’t address. And, to your point, childhood trauma, increased risk of cardiovascular disease. PTSD, increased risk. Anger, anxiety, fear, worry, social isolation, all markedly accelerate cardiovascular disease. Like you said, what does it mean to recover from a heart attack, like, survive? And what does it mean to you mentally? What does it mean to have a stroke? What does it mean to have a label of “you have high blood pressure,” “you have atrial fibrillation?” These are real things that people recognize or not. The medical community does not. And you understand that, obviously, so much more than most. And then, there are two special diagnoses that are kind of reserved for women, that are stress-related. One is takotsubo cardiomyopathy, which is broken heart syndrome, which is a 35 to 55, 60 year old woman, classically. She has a very stressful event. Maybe it’s a fight with her husband. Maybe it’s an issue at work. Maybe it’s something else with a family member. Maybe just internalizing geopolitical stress. Or you’re just feeling the weight of the world on your shoulders. You’re at this empathetic, sympathetic intake of all this, and it leads to a massive heart attack. And we go in there with a catheter. There’s no blockage. Coronaries are clean, most of the time. And it was a spasm in one of the arteries, from that sympathetic outburst, massive catecholamine, adrenaline, epinephrine, norepinephrine, cortisol surge.

And the other one is spontaneous coronary artery dissection… the arteries, that have three layers, all of a sudden just rip open. Massive heart attack. And women die from this, and they die from takotsubo, broken heart. They die from it. We need to address all these different factors. So, to your point, controlling our anger, fear, worry, anxiety. But also, I think, and finally, I’ll wrap up this comment, in the sense of what we do is very empowering, because we teach people, “Hey, you are struggling with these, and it’s a problem. And here’s our solution.” And the solution is not Prozac. The solution is going after root cause, and helping people, “Hey, let’s try and work on getting rid of these stressors in your life.” Like, to me, working in the biggest cardiology group in Arizona, at the end, was very stressful, because I didn’t believe it anymore. And I was trying to, you know, extract myself from that. But I had to do it. Extract yourself from bad. Find your passion. Find your purpose. Find your gratitude. Find your spirituality. Find your community. Find your tribe. And what’s great about what you created, you know, Sandi, of course, is you created a tribe of people who get it. And that’s one of the best things I think you could offer your people, is the fact that, hey, you’re in this community. We’re all here together and supporting each other.

Dr. Sandi: Absolutely. It is so critical. And when I was practicing as a psychologist, and I would get tons of referrals from cardiac rehab. And one of the things we always focused on was, is this worth dying over? You know, they’d get upset about any little thing. And often, it was the little thing that would just throw them over the top. They ruminated, get really angry, and just being able to pull that back is so helpful. I found out, turning 76, like, I just let go of absolutely everything, things that years ago would aggravate me, with family, with, you know, anything with, an incident would happen at work. But now it’s like, so what? And learning to say “so what,” and putting it in perspective, is so critical. And you mentioned community. So, there was a new study, “Community as Medicine,” that just came out, and they took a bunch of seniors, put them in groups, these are from underserved communities, led by health coaches, got better on everything. Mental well-being. Biomarkers improved. And it’s that power of coming together. We are so disconnected and lonely. And that “Bowling Alone,” which, in 2000, Robert Putnam, you know, where…that’s even worse now. People are not in groups anymore. They’re not getting together in person. If they get together at all, it’s, they’re doing something virtually. I just wonder if you can comment again about that, that power of community, when people would gather together, and enjoy being together.

Dr. Jack: Back in the day, our distant family members, who are from Chicago and New York, and a lot of these bigger areas, you all, you lived on the same block as your family. Maybe you went to the same church or synagogue or, you know, community area. And it’s like, you had to get along with each other. And now it’s very easy to not get along. Now it’s very easy to send text messages, emails, that are crude and rude. It’s very easy to isolate yourself, and I think that that’s been a big problem, certainly, over the last five years, a lot of social isolation people have suffered. So, yeah, it’s a great opportunity to return to your community, get plugged back in with whatever it may be. Maybe it’s a spiritual thing. Maybe it’s a church, maybe it’s a synagogue. Maybe it’s, again, some kind of community center, rec center. I got two women I can think of as patients, they’re both longarm quilters. To this day, I don’t know what a longarm quilt is. But to them, they go to conventions where there’s, like, thousands of other women. And the other thing too, I would say, is this, is that you can also find community on social media, which is not the same as in-person. It’s not the same as when I see you, when we embrace each other, and give each other a big hug at an event. That’s the penultimate. But even if you’re struggling for community, you can find a Facebook group. You can find these online mechanisms of support. And it’s definitely better than nothing, to I mean, it’s kind of like the old-fashioned pen pal, where you would write to someone, in a distant way. And again, I think it is a very tremendous area of focus, and really where health coaching can really excel, because you can go read about diet anywhere. Anybody can tell you, yes, go get more sunshine, go get better sleep, move more, avoid toxins. But really also, as we’re hitting on here, this whole community aspect is wonderful.

Dr. Sandi: Yeah, I saw that firsthand. I used to run a group. They didn’t wanna leave. These were a group of seniors, and Medicare wasn’t paying, so I just said, you know, “Pay whatever you can,” and probably they would give me their five dollars. And the group went on for, like, three years. We met in the staff lunchroom. These were oncology doctors, but they were getting referrals from cardiologists and other doctors as well. And it was social proof. So, when a new person came into the group, an old-timer would say, “Oh, when I started out, you know, I had a jar of candy when I would watch TV at night, and I haven’t done that. And if I could give up sugar, you can too.” And it was just, they supported one another, and it was social proof, like, “Oh, if she can do it, I guess I can do it.” But many just came because it was a social outlet. And they laughed together, they learned from one another. So, I think there is such power in coaches can lead those groups. So, another area that I recently learned, because I have a whole stack of supplements here, and I wanted to talk about, like, what is the benefit of supplements for heart health? Like, what if, for, in terms of a basic stack, and then, you have some things that are really, this wild salmon roe, which I think that’s, roe is so beneficial. But if you could comment on that. And also emu oil. Why did you choose those for heart health?

Dr. Jack: Yeah, when I left the big cardiology group, then, of course, you go into the natural world, and you start selling supplements. It’s just what everybody does. And the supplement companies, they are every bit as aggressive as pharmaceutical companies. They can be. And I’m not trying to, I’m trying not to equate the two, because I believe one is selling health, and obviously, one is selling sickness. But one condemnation of us in the holistic realm is “You’re always just selling supplements.” Like, “So, you used to sell pharmaceuticals, and now you’re selling supplements, and you’re just kind of pushing that.” And my opinion was, hey, well, I’m selling health, and, versus I used to sell sickness. Fast-forward to where we’re at right now in 2026, Natural Heart Doctor does sell lab-made supplements. The first thing we’re trying to do is to use a food-first kind of mantra. So, eat well, live well, think well, then get into testing, and do the most advanced blood, urine, stool, salivary testing, whatever it may be. Anything that’s not radiation. I don’t order CT scans on people. I don’t believe in it. Of course, I don’t order a nuclear stress test. I like the most advanced blood, urine, stool testing, to really get just tons of different metrics, right? And then the evidence-based supplements. But that being said, what if we had a product like you were just holding, wild salmon roe, and we took the best food in the world, wild salmon roe, and we freeze-dried it, and we put it in a capsule? What if we did that? That would be foundation. Because maybe some people are like, “I don’t wanna eat salmon roe. I don’t like seafood. I don’t get enough seafood. Can I try this?” It is supposed to be that, and it’s really the fish oil killer. I no longer recommend fish oil, for the last several years, for a variety of reasons. But we do recommend food as medicine, wild salmon roe. Another product we have is called Kickstart My Heart. It is from New Zealand.

Dr. Sandi: Oh, got it here. Yeah.

Dr. Jack: Prairie grass-fed, field-harvested, meaning it’s shot by a marksman. It’s not led to a slaughter pen, and put on a truck and, stressed-out animal, which is not good for the animal. It’s not good for us to consume that. These are unvaccinated, essentially wild elk in New Zealand. And then they are sacrificed and they are blessed on our behalf. And we eat the liver, heart, and kidney. So, if you want a healthy heart, why not eat heart? If you want a healthy liver, why wouldn’t you wanna consume all the vitamins, minerals, proteins, fats in their perfect, most complete form? And that’s what we do. We’re not trying… “Oh, well, how much vitamin D is in that?” I don’t care. I’m not trying to equate that to a vitamin D synthetic, lab-made product. So, we’ve got Kickstart My Heart, wild salmon roe, and the third product there would be emu oil. And emu oil is the single best source of food-based vitamin K2, as MK4, which keeps calcium in the bones and out of the arteries. And it’s also the other fat-soluble vitamins. So, although it’s not actually eating the emu, although I recently, from the Scottsdale Farmers Market, Sandi, we got an emu egg, which is beautiful. And they assured us, oh, no, we’re not feeding them emu Alpo. These are the best, non-GMO, organic feed, and they’re truly free range animals. It’s a massive egg, massive yolk. Anti-egg people would absolutely just pass out if they saw this. And we put it in the pan and scrambled it up and that kind of stuff. So, the emu oil is a very unfiltered oil, with, and it retains its natural value and stuff like that. Then we can get into things like, we have a product called OptiLipid, which contains seven different nutrients, and they’re all plant-based. The superstar in there, probably, is berberine. And when people, they’re like, “Oh, there’s no data on that.” There’s 75,000 studies.

Dr. Sandi: Yes.

Dr. Jack: Seventy-five thousand studies on the components there. And then, for blood pressure, we’ve got Heart Beet, which is our organic beetroot plus powder, manufactured by Biotics Research. We also have Vessel Support, which is arginine, citrulline, taurine, grape seed extract. And we’ve got a Magne. So, what I’m really trying to get away from is a lot of the lab-made vitamin. The minerals are probably not quite as big of a deal. And, to your understanding of this kind of quantum biology level, that at a quantum level, vitamin D from a lab has to be different than vitamin D from food. It’s just has to be different. That in the supplements industry, or just, or, you know, synthetic NAD, or, it’s, you know, do I use time-release niacin in special occasions? I do. But, again, like I said, it’s really just trying this kind of food first, reassess, and then we’ll use the other stuff kind of as needed. But like I said, I personally wanna go with the food-first stuff.

Dr. Sandi: That is the way to go, for health, for heart health, for overall health. And also the, in speaking of roe, salmon roe, that’s, it’s very expensive. I got it in a little tin. I couldn’t open it. I have to get a special key. I still couldn’t open it. So, those little jars of the caviar, for example. But it’s hard to get. People wouldn’t, you know, don’t know how to get it. But this is a very easy way. And it’s same with organs. People are cooking organ, the taste of organ meat, for many people, is a real turnoff, so this is a great way to get it in.

Dr. Jack: Again, it’s a small dose. It’s, like, a half an ounce of you know, on a daily basis. And yeah, I mean, listen, sometimes it can be tough to secure, especially quality organs. A lot of people’s palate…and especially if we’re looking at giving it to the kids, you know, to the grandkids, this is a great way to do it. And I was doing a webinar a couple nights ago, and, you know, somebody’s like, “Oh, my gosh,” you know, $140, you know, full MSRP, and you could buy it at volume and discount and blah, blah, blah, you know. But we’re here to help people. So, let’s say, again, like, it’s $140… And it’s more expensive than the stuff like you’ll get from my buddy, Paul Saladino, or Liver King, and other people doing beef liver. But my product is infinitely better. So, again, let’s just say we can get it for under four bucks a day. And this goes to, when you’re trying to sell coaching packages to people, and your services. And we go in through this whole thing of, like, where are you wasting so much money?

Dr. Sandi: Right.

Dr. Jack: Like, Sandi, do you know any women that are spending multiple hundreds of dollars a month on their hair?

Dr. Sandi: Well, of course.

Dr. Jack: And their nails.

Dr. Sandi: Their nails, for sure.

Dr. Jack: And, you know, it’s like, I don’t begrudge women, and men, for wanting to look better aesthetically, but don’t tell me you don’t have the money for Kickstart My Heart when you live in a fancy house in Scottsdale…

Dr. Sandi: Yeah, that’s right.

Dr. Jack: …when you drive a nice car. So, if you want the most important thing in the world, which is your health, you know, again, downsize the house, downsize the car, downsize some of these other experiences, but don’t compromise. But, I mean, how many people get a Starbucks crappafrappuccino for $7 to start the day, but they’re like, “I’m not paying four bucks for a…” I mean, my goal, and I think yours, is this. We’re gonna come at it, and let’s pretend that we’re attorneys. And you and I are the attorneys on the side of health and wellness. And then they go to see the head of cardiology, neurology, oncology, at the Mayo Clinic. They’re the attorney for the other side, let’s say mainstream. The only thing we ask for people is to listen to both sides, and then be the jury, be the judge, and you decide what’s best for you. You have the freedom to make the choice, the freedom of information, and now you decide. That’s all we ask of people. When I offer second opinion consultations, and my team does as well, again, well, let’s hear, you already heard their side. They want Lipitor, Crestor, Zocor. They want PCSK9 inhibitors. They want CT scans, and they want MRIs, and they want stress tests. And we’ll give you our side, and now it’s up to you to decide where you’re gonna go with that.

Dr. Sandi: Absolutely. I am on your side, and coaches ask that critical question. What do you want your health for? What matters most to you? And then you backtrack from there. Where are you willing to start? And whether that is with food, with exercise, with better sleep, with a way of transforming stress, as well as supplements, as needed, as opposed to focusing on things that are not gonna contribute to your health, that don’t really matter. So, I didn’t get the most expensive furniture when we decorated this house. Now I chose to get a Pilates machine, and weight training equipment, and bring that in…

Dr. Jack: Well, of course, as we get older…

Dr. Sandi: Absolutely.

Dr. Jack: …we really start to prioritize. It’s not either/or, people. You know, we’re talking to mostly coaches here, and health care practitioners. People don’t get a choice of either/or. It’s just, there’s right and then there’s wrong. And if your client chooses the other side, they’re going to die younger, on average. That’s it. The life expectancy, the American male, 76, female, 79. My father died at 63. I owe every epiphany moment, pulling me out of the matrix, to the woman who had become my wife, who I would meet when she was 29. I was 33. She’s a chiropractor, and she just opened up my eyes to health and wellness, and no doubt saved my life, because I was going on the exact same path as my father. So, it is not either/or. It’s, there’s just right or wrong. If you choose the wrong way, you’re going to die. The other thing I would say, and that this is where, again, we kind of touched on this a little, you know, a few minutes ago, Sandi, that this is the opportunity for the matriarchs and the patriarchs of the family to set the example. Like, there’s grandma Sandi over there. She did…look at how she eats. Look at how she lives. Look at how she thinks. Look at what she prioritizes. What bigger legacy could we leave to the next generations than that? There’s none. There’s absolutely none. But we have to live it to lead it. We have to walk the talk. Because no one is gonna listen to someone who says, “Oh, you should go to bed shortly after sundown,” when we’re staying up until one. No child is going to listen to the conversation. “Hey, you know what? You should really limit your tech,” when we’re sitting on tech all night long.

Dr. Sandi: That’s right.

Dr. Jack: No one’s going to do that. No one’s going to say, “I’m smoking, but you shouldn’t. I’m drinking, but you shouldn’t. I’m eating fast food, but you shouldn’t.” So, we have to live it to lead it, and I hope everyone here I know is doing that, and continue to do so, because that’s how we’re changing it. We’re not gonna wait for the medical community to change. They will only change when we demand the change. When we stop… When there’s no longer a two-year waiting list for the doctors, and they’re looking out in the waiting room and no one’s there, because we’ve taken them all to our side. We’re right, and they’re wrong.

Dr. Sandi: I could not agree more. And this has been just such a wonderful conversation with you. Dr. Jack, where can people find you?

Dr. Jack: Well, you and I talked about this beforehand, and I said, “Can I pitch your listeners?” People can find me at Natural Heart Doctor. We are looking for more good coaches. The Functional Medicine Coaching Association, great place. And you’re offering so much, not only clinical, but obviously business-related coaching. And I’m not gonna begrudge the women and the men who want to do this on their own, but if you want to work as part of a team, and help us build this entity of Natural Heart Doctor, we’d love to have you on board. Again, I’m fully in belief that any and all of your coaches can do it on their own. But maybe sometimes the coach just wants to be a coach. They don’t want to be a marketer. They don’t want to be the chief financial officer. They don’t want to be the sales director. They just want to help people as part of a team. Email us at health@naturalheartdoctor.com. You’ll hop on a call with me. You’ll hop on a coach with our director of health coaching, and really help us build something special. And the compensation package here, we just revised it. I was just on a call a couple hours ago, about the compensation package, because we have three levels of coaching, people who do discovery calls, we have support coaches, and then we have master-level coaches, and there is room for all of them. So, again, I can’t thank you enough. I’m so happy for your friendship. I absolutely love you. Every time I see you, you’re always smiling, you’re always happy, you’re always on point, you’re always on mission, and I’m just, I’m so grateful to know you.

Dr. Sandi: Well, feeling is mutual. Thank you for supporting FMCA and health coaches. To be continued.